Hello (again), Emerson:) I've read those books as well, tho long ago so I'm not fresh on the details. I think...for me...the value of reading those books is to pick out the little bits that might be useful or informative without incorporating the sleazy bits. Something I did appreciate about The Game is near the end the author made the overarching point that the way to 'have game' is to work on improving yourself so that you are someone who is more likely to get a 'Yes' when you ask a person out, but the yes is because you've made effort to be a good, attractive person, not because you used sleazy, psychological tricks. So...in the process of self-improvement, they become more ready for healthy relationships. I can get behind that, but...the moment someone tried 'negging' me, I'm instantly out:):):)--Lee